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megalomania
June 18th, 2003, 03:07 PM
frostfire
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Posts: 266
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-20-2001 04:27 PM
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the method of making nicotine poison in PMJB seems promising....
however I kind of doubt it that simply soak those chewing tobacco and boil it to a syrup will produce such 15 minutes kill......
I mean if it''s true then shouldn't be any "accidental" death of tobacco chewer????
can anyone confirm/explain this???....thanks



Gollum
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Posts: 92
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 05-20-2001 04:48 PM
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I thought you were supposed to let it dry, but in any case, when you chew tobacco or smoke a ciggarette you are getting only trace amounts, mixed in with other things. When you boil it, it's getting all of the nicotine out and concentrating it. I'm not certain about that though. But I doubt a figure like Kurt Saxon would make something like that up.


FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 05-20-2001 04:50 PM
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I read once that the lethal dose for nicotine is about 60mg...and if it works anything similar to nerve gas (I REALLY doubt it, but you know) then 15 minutes would be possible.


BoB-
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Posts: 679
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-20-2001 04:51 PM
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Yes its a fairly good poison, its easy to kill small game with it, but it would take alot for larger animals, also, I wouldnt trust any meat that you killed with it.


frostfire
Frequent Poster
Posts: 266
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-20-2001 07:04 PM
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60 mg is a very small dose....therefore I still doubt it since personally I've never heard of the death of a "tobacco chewer", and I happen to notice this in the south
[This message has been edited by frostfire (edited May 20, 2001).]



FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 05-20-2001 07:30 PM
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Here's a little somethin for ya.
nicotine, C10H14N2, poisonous, pale yellow, oily liquid alkaloid with a pungent odor and an acrid taste. It turns brown on exposure to air. Nicotine, a naturally occurring constituent of tobacco, is the active ingredient in tobacco smoke. The amount of nicotine in tobacco leaves ranges from approximately 2% to 7%. In concentrated form, it is used as an insecticide.

Nicotine acts primarily on the autonomic nervous system. In a dose of less than 50 mg, it can cause respiratory failure and general paralysis. Smaller toxic doses can cause heart palpitations, lowered blood pressure, nausea, and dizziness. A person who smokes inhales approximately 3 mg from one cigarette. This amount increases the heart rate, constricts the blood vessels, and acts on the central nervous system, imparting a feeling of alertness and well-being. Although not considered carcinogenic, nicotine probably contributes to the increased incidence of heart disease seen in smokers.

People who use tobacco products develop a physiological addiction to nicotine. Research has shown that nicotine increases the flow of the neurotransmitter dopamine in the brain, creating pleasurable feelings and a craving to keep in the bloodstream levels of nicotine that will maintain these feelings. Lack of nicotine causes withdrawal symptoms (heart rate and blood pressure changes, sleeping problems, brain wave disturbances, and anxiety) in smokers.

Nicotine-containing chewing gums and skin patches that administer nicotine to people who are trying to cease smoking have been developed. Although the rate of absorption is slower with these methods than with smoking—smoking delivers nicotine to the brain within six seconds—and although nicotine obtained in this way does not provide the same pleasurable results as smoking, the gums and patches do help relieve some of the symptoms of withdrawal. Combining the use of patches or gum with continued smoking can result in nicotine overdose and toxicity, causing nausea, palpitations, and headache. Nicotine nasal sprays and inhalers more closely mimic the delivery and intensity of nicotine obtained by smoking. Some researchers have suggested, however, that prolonged use of nicotine replacement, especially inhalers, beyond the few months recommended to break the cigarette habit could damage cells lining the blood vessels and lungs.

ill post something else i found later (when i find it again)



PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-20-2001 08:39 PM
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it will take alot to kill someone, esp if it is homemade, once I tried to make one and I let it sit for 3 days, boiled it down and dramk like 20 drops of the nasty stuff, guess what, it didn't kill me just made me sick (suicide attempt)


c0deblue
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Posts: 229
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 05-20-2001 11:42 PM
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A insecticide called "Black Leaf 40" used to be common in garden stores. This product contained 40% nicotine, hence the name. Haven't checked recently, but it might still be available.


frostfire
Frequent Poster
Posts: 266
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-21-2001 12:06 PM
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thanks for the info
c0deblue: you mean nicotine sulfate???
honestly, this is all about suicidal attempt too....trying to mix nicotine, nicotine sulfate, ricin, and some arsenic (from lab) hopefully...sigh



Dracul
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Posts: 73
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-22-2001 06:27 AM
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I wouldn't use ricin in it, using that does not give you a painless death and takes days to kill you.
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"By the power of Grayskull, I HAVE THE POWER!" He-man

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Arthis
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Posts: 203
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-22-2001 11:20 AM
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Nicotine, as all alkaloïds, is a toxic compound that can be lethal with small doses (here less than 120 mg). Heroin and cocain are alkaloïds too, and are lethal. To have efficient poison you need to have them pure. Nicotine isn't the easiest poison to make in high quantities, nor have a low price. Some plants as datura, or others which I don't know the Ebglish name, are full of alkaloïds. Just on lycaeum to find the way of extracting alkaloïds.
Much more efficient... And those plants are very easy to find. Give you some names later (I much search first).


c0deblue
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Posts: 229
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 05-22-2001 01:21 PM
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frostfire - You've got mail.


EP
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Posts: 108
From: USA
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-23-2001 02:25 AM
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In some anti-smoking talk the person said that if you took all the nicotine in a pack of ciggarettes at once it would kill you but the human body is able to get rid of it quickly so that does not happen.


Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-01-2001 02:09 AM
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I smoke. Only <2 cigarets a day unless I'm at a party or chain smoking friends are close. I don't even have an urge to smoke for several days at a time sometimes, then I just kind of miss it and have a smoke. If I only smoke every other day or once a day, it gets me pretty high. It only lasts for 30 seconds-2 minutes, but it works! Last night I smoked 20+ cigarette and got pretty sick (stomach hurt bad and it made me have to shit). I also wonder why no one OD's on tobacco products. I guess your body gets rid of it really fast.

yt2095
June 18th, 2003, 03:59 PM
personaly i wouldn`t assume that because nicotine containing leaves are readily available that it would make a good poison (although it is is many respects) for elliminating ones self :))

during a dream i had envisioned many different sorts of poison that don`t even involve the TAX man on his pack of 20 cigs!

tho i`m sure you`ve had the same dream too as the knowledge tho p`haps not widely known, is freely available. i saw ground up glass, and rubarb leaves, and fox glove flowers for thier lovely heart stimulating digitalis... ok i`ll stop there.
re: arsenic, the best way is to give the dose in tiny amounts daily gradualy upping it
till it`s a well lethal dose that would kill an elephant ( yes the human body can take many many times a single lethal dose of arsenic if initiated slowly) then suddenly stop administering it... the withdrawl will kill in days !!!

did i mention the nut inside a peach pip?

Psymage
September 1st, 2003, 08:31 AM
hi,

I'm not really sure that nicotine is poiseness but there is one group of plant that I'm almost sure that they are really poisennes, and these are the nightshades (Datura, Belladonna,...) these plants are somethimes used as halluninogenics but not mutch because they are really dangerous (amnesia, becoming insane, dead). So if you want a good poison, maby you can extract the dangerous alkaloids (Atropine) from this plants
here are some links I've searched:

nightshade vault (erowid) (http://www.erowid.org/herbs/nightshade/nightshade.shtml)
datura info (http://www.b-and-t-world-seeds.com/Datura.htm)
datura (drugscope) (http://www.drugscope.org.uk/druginfo/drugsearch/ds_results.asp?file=%5Cwip%5C11%5C1%5C1%5Cdatura.h tm)
nicotine extraction (http://www.people.vcu.edu/~asneden/Nicotine%20experiment.pdf)
antropine info (http://www.intox.org/databank/documents/antidote/antidote/atropine.htm)
alkaloid extraction method (http://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/alkastract.html)

(If you've seen TripleX , there is also Datura used as poison (the green darts that are called datura darts)

zeocrash
September 1st, 2003, 09:53 AM
trust me, nicotine is deadly poisonous.
the main use for attropine, as i'm sure most of you already know is as a nerve gas antidote, as for hallucinogenics, psilicin and psilocybin (magic mushrooms) are much better halucinogens and much less dangerous

bobo
September 2nd, 2003, 04:27 PM
I think eating a cigarette is much much more lethal than smoking one. Can't come up with a harsh cold fact, but I know parents panic when a child eats a cigarette (health forums). Doesn't a large amount of the nicotine burn or degrade? Or is a much larger fraction of nicotine absorbed by the digestive tract than the lungs? (A lot of nicotine is exhaled by smoker anyway)

zeocrash
September 2nd, 2003, 04:57 PM
as far as i know cigarettes contain very small amounts of nicotine. i know various cookbooks claim that 3 cigarettes in a tea will kill someone, but i've never seen any proof of this. besides cigarettes are at most 20% tobbaco, the rest is some sort of filler.

vulture
September 2nd, 2003, 05:19 PM
If you want a good plant alkaloide poison go for taxus leaves. It's easy to find and cultivate, won't raise any suspicion and is highly toxic. In fact, the school I used to attend had a large taxus hedge in front of it. It's a miracle no kid got poisoned by swallowing the leaves.

zaibatsu
September 2nd, 2003, 06:58 PM
Full strength cigarettes contain about 0.8-1mg of nicotine.

Mr Cool
September 3rd, 2003, 04:37 PM
bobo - "I know parents panic when a child eats a cigarette" - Would they not panic if their young child was smoking a cigarette? Thus, it does not mean that eating is worse than smoking in terms of acute toxicity. Ingestion will give a more complete absorbtion of the nicotine, but over a much longer timescale, so effects may not be as bad as inhalation of a small dose. It depends on how quickly nicotine is metabolised.

You could be right, it may be much worse to eat tobacco, I'm just saying that parents panicking because their kid eats a ciggy doesn't prove it.

20% tobacco, are you sure about that zeo? I was shocked when I saw that some rolling baccy said it was only 80%.

Flake2m
September 4th, 2003, 04:09 AM
Nicotine is among the deadliest of alkaloids, It is more deadly then heroine and cocaine.
Wouldn't the best way to use nicotine as a poison be just to put several patches on them? Nicotine patches often contain 7-12mg of nicotine so if several were put on someone then there is a good chance they will take in a lethal dose of the stuff.

If anyone is this forum watches CSI: Miami; there was an episode where a girls used nicotine to kill someone, she put nicotine insecticide in a condom then fucked the guy that died, the condom protected her from the nicotine poisoning, but the guy received a lethal dose of nicotine and died within minutes of screwing her. :cool:

vulture
September 4th, 2003, 10:48 AM
"Spasms? Which spasms officer? Never heard of an orgasm?" :D

nbk2000
September 4th, 2003, 11:23 PM
It may make for good drama, the tainted condom, but it'd make for poor reality. Latex is permeable to nicotine sulphate (Blackleaf-40 pesticide), so the bitch would die too. :)

Now, if it was one of those new plastic condoms (polyurethane), then that might be something, but since nicotine sulphate is absorbable through the skin, why bother fucking dude when you can just spray it on his shorts and let it soak in through his 'nad sack? ;)

Tainting a large bandage might be a trick to use. The really large band-aids and sterile pads are usually only used on bleeding wounds and abraded skin, which means an easy pathway into the blood. :) Also, since you would have no idea when the target would get zapped, you'd easily have an alibi since there'd be no way to tell either when the pads were tampered, nor who did it, and that's that.

As for nictotine patches, how do you expect to get them on the victim in large enough numbers, and for a long enough time, without them noticing? :p

vulture
September 5th, 2003, 03:35 AM
As for nictotine patches, how do you expect to get them on the victim in large enough numbers, and for a long enough time, without them noticing?

a) Tell the victim it makes you horney
b) sell it to them as undetectable, through the skin XTC
c)......

:D

cypher13
September 12th, 2003, 11:24 PM
Nicotine and its salts are very deadly poison - more deadly than cyanide on a weight-for weight basis. It is not at all difficult to find LD-50s for the various nicotine salts and I'll leave that to you as I don't recall them anyway.

If you are interested, nicotine is soluble in virtually all proportions in water, and that is the best route to its extraction. Get good Virginia pipe tobacco, as it has the highest concentration of the alkaloid. Specifically ask the tobacconist for this. A shag cut is best, unless you feel like working it over with a razor blade yourself (and if you choose to do this, do it wearing latex gloves). A half a pound of this stuff will give you enough nicotine to kill several people, if that is your goal.

If it isn't shag cut, chop it up as finely as you can, put it in a glass pie plate, cover it with distilled water and leave it for a few days. If you have a stirrer, that is great and the process can be quick: a couple hours of vigorous stirring in a beaker will do nicely. In either case, you get opaque brown water and tobacco residue. Filter it thoroughly. Squeeze the tobacco residue to get the last bits of liquid from it and then discard it - don't let it contact your skin. Let the filtrate evaporate. Do not let anything fall into it, if you're evaporating it in open air. If you have a vacuum evaporator, so much the better, or you can bake it in an oven, as you see fit.

The resulting brown, gunky, malodorous residue is pretty close to pure nicotine. It's fine as it is. If you want it as a salt, nicotine sulfate is the best choice, but you can buy that as insecticide, albeit generally in solution, in any well-stocked hardware store or garden supply shop. I am sure you can figure out how to make it into a salt.

The thing is that nicotine has its limitations as a poison for assassination. Nicotine smells and, like all the alkaloids, has a bitter, bitter taste. Smokers have increased tolerance to its actions and I am guessing here, but I would imagine a seasoned smoker could ingest six or seven times a potentially lethal dose. Should you administer it to a non-smoker and there is a postmortem, it is almost a certainty that the stomach will be dissected for examination of the contents and the contents will, also most certainly, have the characteristic nicotine odor. Any medical examiner who misses it is surely an incompetent and one should never count on incompetence in the M.E.'s office. All of a sudden, it's a poisoning and that leads to problems you neither need nor want.

So, I tend to think it has its limitations as a weapon of assassination, but if you are interested inmaking some really miserable for twelve to twenty-four hours, nicotine is great stuff. Find your LD-50 and give them, say, twenty percent of that.

Now - I had acute nicotine poisoning during Christmas 1988. I hadn't smoked for a while, then, on that day, I smoked two Te Amo Churchills. All through that evening and into the next day, I was vomiting and generally very, very miserable - I'll spare you the gory details. The liver, at least if it's healthy, will eventually handle sublethal doss of nicotine . The story Gordon Liddy told in Will about treating cigarettes with nicotine and obtaining lethal results is doubtless bunk - there wasn't enough to kill a smoker that way.

How ironic! Circumstances under which smoking could save your life.

A

nbk2000
September 13th, 2003, 01:24 AM
Nicotine is also destroyed by hydrolysis in contact with water, so your destroying it as you're extracting it.

A brown sludge is hardly "pure".

Try using an acidified water/ether extraction/base neutrilization instead. You'll get pure nicotine then.

The insecticide you're referring to is called "Blackleaf 40" and is now no longer available OTC, or even commercially (I believe). So there goes the easy route. :p

teshilo
May 2nd, 2004, 05:48 AM
Yes NBK . Water hydrolyses nicotine .In laboratory method extraction used water with CaO. In industrial scale preparation- water with sulfuric acid .After, solution distill with steam and extracted nicotine with help various solvents ether ,trichloroethylene etc or translate his in nicotine sulfate.

Bigfoot
May 5th, 2004, 04:38 PM
TO concur about nicotine toxicity and tolerance...

Some years back I read an article dealing with tobacco harvesters--the people who go into the tobacco fields and cut and stack the leaves. Non-smokers tend to show toxicity very quickly, often on the first day, while smokers/chewers can go all day without lighting/dipping, go a week or more with no sign of toxicity.
I just wish I'd saved the article, or could remember where I read it.